I encountered Herbert in the mid-1980's at Karme Choling shortly after I had taken up meditation. I was probably 17 or 18 years old, and went to Karme Choling to work in childcare during two summers. I interacted with Herbert and his sons Jake and Gampo who were also at KCL during parts of the summer. He was an older male (compared to me), roughly analogous to what my kids would call a "Boomer" today, but he was unlike the other older men I had encountered in my life. He and Paul Warwick and Peter Orlovsky were all at KCL, and they impressed me with their devotion to practice, primarily expressed in their willingness to be on the spot. Herbert had a wonderful energy; yes, somewhat intimidating and too intense for polite company, but it takes all types. I really appreciate the encounters I had with Herbert.